I'm sure he knows this well, by this point. BRIAN MURARESKU: I look forward to it, Charlie. Part 1 Brian C. Muraresku: The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis and the Hallucinogenic Origins of Religion 3 days ago Plants of the Gods: S4E1. The phrasing used in the book and by others is "the pagan continuity hypothesis". We have some inscriptions. We're going to get there very soon. And so even within the New Testament you see little hints and clues that there was no such thing as only ordinary table wine. Not just in Italy, but as kind of the headquarters for the Mediterranean. You also find a Greek hearth inside this sanctuary. And he found some beer and wine-- that was a bit surprising. Now, I have no idea where it goes from here, or if I'll take it myself. Hard archaeobotanical, archaeochemical data, I haven't seen it. So I was obsessed with this stuff from the moment I picked up an article in The Economist called the God Pill back in 2007. So if we can test Eucharistic vessels, I wouldn't be surprised at all that we find one. Not because they just found that altar. To this day I remain a psychedelic virgin quite proudly, and I spent the past 12 years, ever since that moment in 2007, researching what Houston Smith, perhaps one of the most influential religious historians of the 20th century, would call the best kept secret in history. And apparently, the book is on order, so I can't speak to this directly, but the ancient Greek text that preserves this liturgy also preserves the formula, the ingredients of the eye ointment. But I realized that in 1977, when he wrote that in German, this was the height of scholarship, at least going out on a limb to speculate about the prospect of psychedelics at the very heart of the Greek mysteries, which I refer to as something like the real religion of the ancient Greeks, by the way, in speaking about the Eleusinian mysteries. What about Jesus as a Jew? And if you're a good Christian or a good Catholic, and you're consuming that wine on any given Sunday, why are you doing that? Now, I've had experiences outside the Eucharist that resonate with me. The divine personage in whom this cult centered was the Magna Mater Deum who was conceived as the source of all life as well as the personification of all the powers of nature.\[Footnote:] Willoughby, Pagan Regeneration, p. 114.\ 7 She was the "Great Mother" not only "of all the gods," but of all men" as well. Now the archaeologist of that site says-- I'm quoting from your book-- "For me, the Villa Vesuvio was a small farm that was specifically designed for the production of drugs." And the reason I find that a worthy avenue of pursuit is because when you take a step back and look at the Greek of the Gospels, especially the Greek of John, which is super weird, what I see based on Dennis MacDonald's scholarship that you mentioned-- and others-- when you do the exegesis of John's gospel, there's just lots of vocabulary and lots of imagery that doesn't appear elsewhere. But let me say at the outset that it is remarkably learned, full of great historical and philological detail. But it's not an ingested psychedelic. I would have been happy to find a spiked wine anywhere. Brought to you by GiveWell.org charity research and effective giving and 5-Bullet Friday, my very own email newsletter.Welcome to The Tim Ferriss Show, where it is usually my job to deconstruct world-class performers to tease out their routines, habits, et cetera that you can apply to your own life. What is its connection to Eleusis? I took this to Greg [? would certainly appreciate. What's significant about these features for our piecing together the ancient religion with no name? These-- that-- Christians are spread out throughout the eastern Mediterranean, and there are many, many pockets of people practicing what we might call, let's just call it Christian mysticism of some kind. I include that line for a reason. I mean, in the absence of the actual data, that's my biggest question. Liked by Samuel Zuschlag. Now, the great scholar of Greek religion, Walter Burkert, you quote him as musing, once-- and I'm going to quote him-- he says, "it may rather be asked, even without the prospect of a certain answer, whether the basis of the mysteries, they were prehistoric drug rituals, some festival imp of immortality which, through the expansion of consciousness, seemed to guarantee some psychedelic beyond." And that's the mysteries of Dionysus. Books about pagan continuity hypothesis? Several theories address the issue of the origin of the Romanians.The Romanian language descends from the Vulgar Latin dialects spoken in the Roman provinces north of the "Jireek Line" (a proposed notional line separating the predominantly Latin-speaking territories from the Greek-speaking lands in Southeastern Europe) in Late Antiquity.The theory of Daco-Roman continuity argues that the . So listening right now, there's at least one orthodox priest, there's at least one Catholic priest, an Episcopalian, an Anglican, and several others with whom I've been talking in recent months. Here's the big question. And Brian, once again, thank you so much. But I want to ask you to reflect on the broader narrative that you're painting, because I've heard you speak in two ways about the significance of this work. They were mixed or fortified. This notion in John 15:1, the notion of the true vine, for example, only occurs in John. I think the wine certainly does. Because at my heart, I still consider myself a good Catholic boy. I fully expect we will find it. Because ergot is just very common. And at some point in my narrative, I do include mention of Gobekli Tepe, for example, which is essentially twice the age of Stonehenge. Do you think that the Christians as a nascent cult adapted a highly effective psycho technology that was rattling . So I think it's really interesting details here worth following up on. But what I hear from people, including atheists, like Dina Bazer, who participated in these Hopkins NYU trials is that she felt like on her one and only dose of psilocybin that she was bathed in God's love. So I think this was a minority of early Christians. Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin: The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, Psychedelics, and More | Tim Ferriss Show #646 I'm going to stop asking my questions, although I have a million more, as you well know, and instead try to ventriloquist the questions that are coming through at quite a clip through the Q&A. So again, that's February 22. Thank you. And he was actually going out and testing some of these ancient chalices. Now, I've never done them myself, but I have talked to many, many people who've had experience with psychedelics. Now, I think you answered that last part. The same Rome that circumstantially shows up, and south of Rome, where Constantine would build his basilicas in Naples and Capua later on. But they charge Marcus specifically, not with a psychedelic Eucharist, but the use of a love potion. The Continuity Hypothesis was put forward by John Bowlby (1953) as a critical effect of attachments in his development of Attachment Theory. And that kind of invisible religion with no name, although brutally suppressed, managed to survive in Europe for many centuries and could potentially be revived today. These were Greek-- I've seen them referred to as Greek Vikings by Peter Kingsley, Vikings who came from Ionia. Examine the pros and cons of the continuity theory of aging, specifically in terms of how it neglects to consider social institutions or chronically ill adults. When Irenaeus is talking about [SPEAKING GREEK], love potions, again, we have no idea what the hell he's talking about. Now, you could draw the obvious conclusion. And the one thing that unites both of those worlds in this research called the pagan continuity hypothesis, the one thing we can bet on is the sacred language of Greek. And the truth is that this is a project that goes well beyond ancient history, because Brian is convinced that what he has uncovered has profound implications for the future of religion, and specifically, the future of his own religion, Roman Catholicism. I also sense another narrative in your book, and one you've flagged for us, maybe about 10 minutes ago, when you said that the book is a proof of concept. BRIAN MURARESKU: I don't-- I don't claim too heavily. You mentioned, too, early churchmen, experts in heresies by the name of Irenaeus of Lyons and Hippolytus of Rome. Others find it in different ways, but the common denominator seems to be one of these really well-curated near-death experiences. Did the potion at Eleusis change from generation to generation? He's joining us from Uruguay, where he has wisely chosen to spend his pandemic isolation. Here's another one. I write it cognizant of the fact that the Eucharist doesn't work for many, many people. And yet I talked to an atheist who has one experience with psilocybin and is immediately bathed in God's love. Are they rolling their eyes, or are you getting sort of secretive knowing nods of agreement? CHARLES STANG: OK, that is the big question. Like savory, wormwood, blue tansy, balm, senna, coriander, germander, mint, sage, and thyme. Maybe part of me is skeptical, right? I mean, what-- my big question is, what can we say about the Eucharist-- and maybe it's just my weird lens, but what can we say about it definitively in the absence of the archaeochemstry or the archaeobotany? So the closer we get to the modern period, we're starting to find beer, wine mixed with interesting things. And you find terracotta heads that could or could not be representative of Demeter and Persephone, the two goddesses to whom the mysteries of Eleusis were dedicated. So Brian, I wonder, maybe we should give the floor to you and ask you to speak about, what are the questions you think both ancient historians such as myself should be asking that we're not, and maybe what are the sorts of questions that people who aren't ancient historians but who are drawn to this evidence, to your narrative, and to the present and the future of religion, what sort of questions should they be asking regarding psychedelics? In this way, the two traditions coexisted in a syncretic form for some time before . That's our next event, and will be at least two more events to follow. It was it was barley, water, and something else. But it just happens to show up at the right place at the right time, when the earliest Christians could have availed themselves of this kind of sacrament. So that's from Burkert, a very sober scholar and the dean of all scholarship on Greek religion. And what the FDA can do is make sure that they're doing it in a way that it's absolutely safe and efficacious. Now is there any evidence for psychedelic use in ancient Egypt, and if not, do you have any theory as to why that's silent? CHARLES STANG: Right. Psychedelics Today: PTSF 35 (with Brian Muraresku) Griffithsfund.org In the first half, we'll cover topics ranging from the Eleusinian Mysteries, early Christianity, and the pagan continuity hypothesis to the work of philosopher and psychologist William James. This two-part discussion between Muraresku and Dr. Plotkin examines the role psychedelics have played in the development of Western civilization. First act is your evidence for psychedelics among the so-called pagan religions in the ancient Mediterranean and Near East. "The Jews" are not after Ye. Because every time I think about ancient wine, I am now immediately thinking about wine that is spiked. So Pompeii and its environs at the time were called [SPEAKING GREEK], which means great Greece. And I guess my biggest question, not necessarily for you, but the psychedelic community, for what it's worth, or those who are interested in this stuff is how do we make this experience sacred? These are famous figures to those of us who study early Christianity. Those religions featured psychedelic beer and ceremonies lead by women . Now I want to get to the questions, but one last question before we move to the discussion portion. Please materialize. That's staying within the field of time. Here's what we don't. And I wonder and I question how we can keep that and retain that for today. Jerry Brown wrote a good review that should be read to put the book in its proper place. So there's a whole slew of sites I want to test there. So welcome to the fourth event in our yearlong series on psychedelics and the future of religion, co-sponsored by the Esalen Institute, the Riverstyx Foundation, and the Chacruna Institute for Psychedelic Plant Medicines. Now that doesn't mean, as Brian was saying, that then suggests that that's the norm Eucharist. Now, that is part of your kind of interest in democratizing mysticism, but it also, curiously, cuts out the very people who have been preserving this tradition for centuries, namely, on your own account, this sort of invisible or barely visible lineage of women. CHARLES STANG: All right. So, like, they're wonderstruck, or awestruck by their libations and their incense. We don't have to look very hard to find that. I do the same thing in the afterword at the very end of the book, where it's lots of, here's what we know. It's not the case in the second century. That's just everlasting. And I'm trying to reconcile that. I'm paraphrasing this one. And to be quite honest, I'd never studied the ancient Greeks in Spain. They did not. Perhaps more generally, you could just talk about other traditions around the Mediterranean, North African, or, let's even say Judaism. Listen to #646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, Lessons from Scholar Karen Armstrong, and Much More, an episode of The Tim Ferriss Show, easily on Podbay - the best podcast player on the web. We know that at the time of Jesus, before, during, and after, there were recipes floating around. The long and short of it is, in 1978 there was no hard scientific data to prove this one way or the other. So I point to that evidence as illustrative of the possibility that the Christians could, in fact, have gotten their hands on an actual wine. So what do we know about those rituals? CHARLES STANG: Well, Mr, Muraresku, you are hedging your bets here in a way that you do not necessarily hedge your bets in the book. So this is the tradition, I can say with a straight face, that saved my life. I mean, this is what I want to do with some of my remaining days on this planet, is take a look at all these different theories. I'm not sure many have. Newsweek calls him "the world's best human guinea pig," and The New York Times calls him "a cross between Jack Welch and a Buddhist monk." In this show, he deconstructs world-class . And anyone who drinks this, [SPEAKING GREEK], Jesus says in Greek, you remain in me and I in you. Because again, when I read the clinical literature, I'm reading things that look like mystical experiences, or that at least at least sound like them. Again, if you're attracted to psychedelics, it's kind of an extreme thing, right? That seems very believable, but there's nothing to suggest that the pharmacy or drug farm was serving Christians, or even that the potions produced were for ritual use. This 'pagan continuity hypothesis' with a psychedelic twist is now backed up by biochemistry and agrochemistry and tons of historical research, exposing our forgotten history. But we do know that something was happening. I will ask Brian to describe how he came to write this remarkable book, and the years of sleuthing and studying that went into it. So can you reflect for us where you really are and how you chose to write this book? And all we know-- I mean, we can't decipher sequence by sequence what was happening. This discussion on Febrary 1, 2021, between CSWR Director Charles Stang and Brian Muraresku about his new book, The Immortality Key: The Secret History of the Religion with No Name,a groundbreaking dive into the role of psychedelics in the ancient Mediterranean world. Maybe I'm afraid I'll take the psychedelic and I won't have what is reported in the literature from Hopkins and NYU. So your presentation of early Christianity inclines heavily toward the Greek world. BRIAN MURARESKU: Dr. Stang, an erudite introduction as ever. And there were gaps as well. President and CEO, First Southeast Financial Corp and First Federal Savings and Loan Director, Carolina First Bank and The South Financial Group And I think we get hung up on the jargon. The pagan continuity hypothesis at the heart of this book made sense to me. A rebirth into what? I've no doubt that Brian has unearthed and collected a remarkable body of evidence, but evidence of what, exactly? and he said, Brian, don't you dare. Richard Evans Schultes and the Search for Ayahuasca 17 days ago Plants of the Gods: S3E10. 1,672. And by the way, I'm not here trying to protect Christianity from the evidence of psychedelic use. BRIAN MURARESKU: I'm bringing more illumination. Is taking all these disciplines, whether it's your discipline or archaeochemistry or hard core botany, biology, even psychopharmacology, putting it all together and taking a look at this mystery, this puzzle, using the lens of psychedelics as a lens, really, to investigate not just the past but the future and the mystery of human consciousness. And I think that's an important distinction to make. There's all kinds of reasons I haven't done it. I mean, I wish it were easier. To be a Catholic is to believe that you are literally consuming the blood of Christ to become Christ. Wonderful, well, thank you. So I want to propose that we stage this play in two acts. It still leaves an even bigger if, Dr. Stang, is which one is psychedelic? So why refrain? But it was just a process of putting these pieces together that I eventually found this data from the site Mas Castellar des Pontos in Spain. So psychedelics or not, I think it's the cultivation of that experience, which is the actual key. So here's a question for you. BRIAN MURARESKU:: It's a simple formula, Charlie. Mark and Brian cover the Eleusinian Mysteries, the pagan continuity hypothesis, early Christianity, lessons from famed religious scholar Karen Armstrong, overlooked aspects of influential philosopher William James's career, ancient wine and ancient beer, experiencing the divine within us, the importance of "tikkun olam"repairing and . And when Houston says something like that, it grabs the attention of a young undergrad a bit to your south in Providence, Rhode Island, who was digging into Latin and Greek and wondering what the heck this was all about. After the first few chapters the author bogs down flogging the Pagan Continuity Hypothesis and exulting over his discovery of small scraps of evidence he found in a decade of research. So when you take a step back, as you well know, there was a Hellenic presence all over the ancient Mediterranean. But by and large, no, we don't really know. And there were moments when the sunlight would just break through. And Ruck, and you following Ruck, make much of this, suggesting maybe the Gnostics are pharmacologists of some kind. And I'm not even sure what that piece looks like or how big it is. And did the earliest Christians inherit the same secret tradition? So the event happens, when all the wines run out, here comes Jesus, who's referred to in the Gospels as an [SPEAKING GREEK] in Greek, a drunkard. And you suspect, therefore, that it might be a placebo, and you want the real thing. The Immortality Key, The Secret History of the Religion With No Name. On Monday, February 22, we will be hosting a panel discussion taking up the question what is psychedelic chaplaincy. But we at least have, again, the indicia of evidence that something was happening there. And I think it's very important to be very honest with the reader and the audience about what we know and what we don't. Amongst all the mystery religions, Eleusis survives. So you lean on the good work of Harvard's own Arthur Darby Nock, and more recently, the work of Dennis McDonald at Claremont School of Theology, to suggest that the author of the Gospel of John deliberately paints Jesus and his Eucharist in the colors of Dionysus. I am so fortunate to have been selected to present my thesis, "Mythology and Psychedelics: Taking the Pagan Continuity Hypothesis a Step Further" at. To some degree, I think you're looking back to southern Italy from the perspective of the supremacy of Rome, which is not the case in the first century. BRIAN MURARESKU: Good one. I'm not sure where it falls. Maybe there's some residual fear that's been built up in me. 101. I mean, I asked lots of big questions in the book, and I fully acknowledge that. Mark and Brian cover the Eleusinian Mysteries, the pagan continuity hypothesis, early Christianity, lessons from famed religious scholar Karen Armstrong, overlooked aspects of influential philosopher William James's career, ancient wine and ancient beer, experiencing the divine within us, the importance of " tikkun olam "repairing and improving